It's Monday morning and Kevin Phillips is gearing up to take charge of his first Hartlepool United training session. The Sunderland legend takes a sip from his coffee as he acquaints himself with a handful of his backroom staff at the club's Maiden Castle training base.
Tucked away in a corner of the foyer, there's brief talk of tactical shape, Wyscout and plans for this week's training schedule. There's idle chatter, and toing and froing of Durham University students heading to seminars and classes, a backdrop the newly appointed Pools head coach will have to get accustomed to. Unbeknownst to the majority of those students, the only ever Englishman to win the European Golden Shoe sits just yards away.
The facilities at the complex are on par with many of the elite clubs that Phillips played for during his time as a pro, but Hartlepool, as a club, are a shadow of their once esteemed Football League self.
Pools fans would have been forgiven for thinking they'd never return to the depths of non-league, having spent four seasons in the fifth tier of English football from 2017 before promotion in 2020-21 brought an end to an unwelcome absence from the Football League under Dave Challinor.
The 48-year-old left Victoria Park in November 2021, little over three months into the club's return to the EFL, and Pools have had four permanent managers since then. Phillips will be the fifth in just over two years.
Hartlepool's stay back in League Two lasted just two years, relegated in 23rd place last season, before the hangover of that relegation seeped into this year's National League campaign, with Phillips now tasked with restoring pride and a sense of identity at this great club. The former Sunderland hitman avoided talk of background noise - with a consortium brought together by the Hartlepool United Supporters' Trust looking to buy out current owner Raj Singh - citing the negativity as something he looks to banish, even if the relationship between the current owner and fanbase is fractured to say the least.
"I'll take all the issues away from them," Phillips told We Are Sunderland as he gives a positive yet stern insight into what he wants from his players amid the off-the field noise.
At 50-years-old, Phillips takes on just his second ever managerial role, having spent his 40's honing his craft as a first-team coach across a number of clubs. Leicester City, Derby County and Stoke City are just some Phillips has coached at, whilst repeatedly being linked with the managerial position at the Stadium of Light whenever there has been a vacancy, before taking over at neighbours South Shields back in January 2022.
"We were full-time," he said. "It wasn’t the most professional environment when I took over, so I had to build that as well and deal with a lot off the pitch to create that professional environment. Here, they’ve been full-time for a long, long time so that’s something I don’t need to worry about.
"It’s been a bit of a surprise coming into the training ground and there’s students everywhere, but that’s something I’ll have to get used to, the players here are used to it. The facilities here are excellent so there are no excuses for the players.
"We travel on Friday night for every away game. It’s done properly, so what we have to do is not give the players any excuses of ‘ah this wasn’t done’ or ‘that wasn’t done’ and I’ll be aiming to do that so all they’ve got to do is concentrate on getting results."
Phillips matched expectations with South Shields, delivering promotion to National League North in his first full season in charge at the end of 2023, before leaving the club by mutual consent. By his own accord, the next nine months that followed were "frustrating" after a number of job rejections, despite a title on his CV from his first permanent managerial role.
Like many head coaches and managers who find themselves out of the game, Phillips took time away from the football goldfish bowl to reset, going on a number of holidays, golf trips and a trip to Dubai to visit his daughter.
Nonetheless, all too aware of spending too long out of the game, he remained active and visited a number of clubs for fresh ideas and coaching practices. Phillips' agent would touch base with the National League side after Hartlepool parted company with John Askey at the end of December following a disappointing first half of the season which left the club closer to another relegation battle than a return to the Football League. After three rounds of intense meetings, Phillips would be back in the managerial hotseat with no doubts over his decision to take on a struggling Pools.
READ MORE: Alex Pritchard latest amid contract uncertainty
Steve McCLaren, Claudio Ranieri and Paul Clement are just a few of the well recognised coaches Phillips has worked under during his own coaching career, something he believes has stood him in good stead ahead of landing his latest role.
"Hugely important," he said. "I think that might have helped in the decision from the owners, maybe. When I listed the clubs that I'd worked at, and the managers I worked under and learnt from; Claudio Ranieri, Steve McClaren, Paul Clement who has worked at some of the very best clubs in the world.
"You take little snippets off them but what you can’t do as a manager, and I was very conscious when I went to Shields, is copy any of them. You have to have your own identity and I believe I’ve got that.
"I’m going to be learning from Lennie [Lawrence] who has managed over 1,000 games. I know he’s been a great mentor to Dougie Freedman, who I know. I’ll be picking his brains left, right and centre.
"Antony Sweeney, who has been at Hartlepool for years, I believe we’ve got the balance right. The players won’t have any excuses and if they’ve got any questions we can answer them."
Phillips will be hoping to use his Sunderland connections - just as he did at South Shields in forging a relationship with Tony Mowbray - having already spoken with new head coach Michael Beale prior to landing the Pools job.
"This was before Hartlepool, he just wanted to pick my brains about Sunderland," Phillips said. "I never actually got round to meeting him because I was busy and he was busy, but I’m sure we’ll touch base over the coming weeks.
"I did with Tony Mowbray when I was manager at Shields, we built up a good relationship. I went through quite often and watch the Under-23s. I’ll be looking to build relationships and hopefully I can make contact with Michael Carrick. I played in his golf day a couple of years ago – a nice guy.
"I think you have to use all your contacts and resources in the game. I’ve got a lot of those so I’ll be aiming to do that, but at the moment my focus is on trying to get results here."
Despite being just days into his new role, Phillips has already spent hours on Wyscout, analysing opposition and looking at potential transfer targets, hoping to steer Hartlepool on an upward trajectory. "I'm not here to mess around," he professes. "I haven’t got time to give players a chance or an opportunity. I need to make decisions now."
There lies some similarities between the position Phillips finds himself in at Victoria Park and with the current Sunderland boss, Beale. Although a month further along in his tenure, Beale has an expectant fanbase he needs to get onside and needs to build a rapport with - Pools also in need of some stability and direction.
"Unless you’ve got stability you’ve got no chance," said Phillips. "You’ve seen it even with bigger clubs. Four managers in the last 12 months is not ideal. For whatever reason it’s happened, now I intend to be here for a good while and get results."
In that lies a message Sunderland's former owners could have adhered to as they tumbled down the divisions - the club's current owners having spent the last few years picking up the pieces of poor decisions and management.
Despite all the good work in recent seasons, however, Kyril Louis-Dreyfus now finds himself in a tricky situation for the first time since taking over on Wearside after a series of questionable decisions off the field. An amalgamation of issues has seen the relationship with Sunderland supporters break down. The decision to part ways with Mowbray perhaps the catalyst, or maybe the former boss had been papering over the cracks.
Add in the FA Cup debacle against Newcastle United and results not being what they would have hoped under new head coach Beale, and it has made for a boiling hot caldron that risks overflowing.
"It's been up and down," Phillips said when asked about his views on his former club. "It doesn’t help when you change the manager who was doing an excellent job. For whatever reason, I was as shocked as anyone to be honest.
"It’s always hard to continue momentum when a manager that’s well respected by the players leaves. It’s hard to keep that momentum going. It’s been up and down, which is typical Sunderland really. They’re still in a good position.
"Of course it was a disappointing result against Hull the other night, I watched the game and it’s disappointing. You can feel that from the supporters and only they can tell you if they’re happy at the minute."
Supporters made their feelings clear in the defeat to Hull City as chants of 'you're getting sacked in the morning' and 'we want Beale out' echoed around the Stadium of Light. Since that defeat, 'Beale out' has also been trending on social media with the message from supporters, seemingly, clear.
"They’re frustrated," Phillips paused. "It’s been indifferent, but hopefully Michael can get the time to turn it around, stamp his authority and style, go on a little run and get to the play-offs.
"It was the same when Sir Alex Ferguson left Manchester United. Who is going to come in and continue that? It’s not on that level, but it’s similar. He [Beale] knew it was going to be difficult. Generally, when you get a job, it’s when a manager has left because he’s not doing the job well, whereas Tony was.
"It can be difficult and he’s [Beale] clever enough and experienced enough to know if he doesn’t hit the ground running, get results, Sunderland demand that. What they want to see, if they are going to make a change, is an improvement and unfortunately, at the minute, there hasn’t been one for whatever reason.
"They’ve got a good squad there and certainly got the players to go on a run. If they can add one or two during this window before it shuts - I’m sure they’ll be working hard behind the scenes. Obviously, there’s [Mike] Dodds and [Michael] Proctor there who have been there for a while now and know the script. But they need results, and it’s not nice to hear [the chants].
"You could hear it loud and clear on the television, the supporters venting their frustration. At a time like this, it’s not the manager’s fault. It’s extremely difficult, so I just hope they give him a little bit of time and ease off him a bit. As I say, I’m sure they’re working hard on the training ground."
"If that’s the model they want to go down, signing those types of players – no players over the age of 24 – for me, you’re not going to challenge," Phillips stressed. "You might have the odd season where you’re skirting around the play-offs but if you’re really serious about getting to the Premier League, you need experience in there.
"Without a shadow of a doubt I think that’s probably one of the frustrations that Tony had. He was able to bring Bradley Dack in, but he’s had his issues with injuries. To bring four strikers in and at one point all four of them were sitting on the bench, whether it’s Tony in charge or Michael, he doesn’t trust them.
"Rusyn has started under Beale and looks lively. It’s difficult for him coming from a foreign country, he doesn’t speak the language very well but he runs around, he’s a grafter. The other three, I’d rather see an experienced player that’s been there, seen it and done it.
"Guide the other players, like a Pritchard, who you have to say has played very well in the last few weeks. For me, if that’s what they want to do, fair enough. I’d like to understand why they’re doing it. Whether they’re trying to develop to sell?
"That’s maybe how I see it, but I’d rather see Sunderland go and get a mixture of youngsters and leaders that can get them out of that league.
"Brentford are in the Premier League and they’ve done it for a while, as are Brighton," Phillips added. "It works, but as a Sunderland supporter they want to get back to the Premier League. They’re a big enough club, they’ve got the infrastructure, the crowd, they want to see their team challenging.
"They were extremely unlucky last season, injuries killed them in the play-offs. They came very close and they just want to see a progression of that. Signing seasoned, experienced players that have been there and done it would really help that group.
"Those types of players walking through the door would give those young players a lift. Until they do that, I would imagine we’ll still be having the same conversations. They’ll win a couple and lose a couple. You want to see some consistency.
Recommended Reading
"When you look at the top teams in that league they’re consistent. You might lose the odd game but they probably won’t lose to Hull at home and that’s no disrespect to Hull, who are a good side by the way.
"They find a way to get a result and unfortunately the other night Sunderland were getting frustrated and running out of ideas. The biggest thing is, if you take Jack Clarke out of that team, who is going to be the threat? Patrick Roberts is a good player, Pritchard.
"Jack is really that one that is a ball carrier, a creator, blockbuster. Touch wood, I hope they can keep hold of him because I’m sure there’s teams that are sniffing round him."
Read the rules here